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Guestbook

Simon Kneebone

3:36 AM on April 2, 2011 by [email protected]

Love the site; great videos and commentaries.

McLook

4:34 PM on April 6, 2011

Thanks Simon and welcome. Lots more to come in terms of video material and game reports.

3 colours

8:45 AM on June 13, 2011

Since the time that I was looking for a site! I me regia! Thank you McLook

All Blacks 1996

5:50 AM on June 19, 2011

This site is a wonderful archive of rugby's greatest rivalry. Bring back the long tours, and warm up by thrashing Oz! Bring back the biff as well.

McLook

6:37 AM on June 19, 2011

Agree. These long tours was something else and I would love to see it back. Reality is it is not as profitable as S15 and Tri-nations. But hey we can have a yarn about the old days and read and watch some pictures of the old heroes on Sunday when we have nothing else to do. Welcome I am sure you'll find my current topic (the 1956 tour) interesting reading. I try and post a new piece every weekend. The next one will be about the Waikato game which had a significant impact on the tour.

All Blacks 1996

7:19 AM on June 19, 2011 

McLook says...

Agree. These long tours was something else and I would love to see it back. Reality is it is not as profitable as S15 and Tri-nations. But hey we can have a yarn about the old days and read and watch some pictures of the old heroes on Sunday when we have nothing else to do. Welcome I am sure you'll find my current topic (the 1956 tour) interesting reading. I try and post a new piece every weekend. The next one will be about the Waikato game which had a significant impact on the tour.

7:22 AM on June 19, 2011

Unfortunately rugby is now in the hands of sponsors and multi national media interests, which are infringing on the cultural soul of the game, and corrupting our national identity and sporting values. Commercialism is threatening to make the final cut from the Corinthian values that have defined rugby. If rugby is reduced to a franchised branch of the entertainment industry by australian media interests, its social significance in our country will decline. When domestic and international rugby becomes a media managed experience, the connection between players and the public is not as close as it has historically been in our countries. The sense of us all having a stake in our team is replaced by the players need to justify their money, rather than the team expressing our hopes and collective desire with the ball. To beat the All Blacks, or the Springboks we need players that do not do it just for the money.

7:00 AM on June 20, 2011
Well said; can't agree with you more. I see the NZ players (S15 and AB) make quite and effort to mingle with the crowds after matches. I don't, however, think that is enough. You need your Springboks and All Blacks to play a few club games and to exert their knowledge and influence to club players. People in Palmerston North and Wanganui will go and watch club matches if they know one of the All Blacks are playing. I can still remeber my excitement cycling on my bike in Mafikeng as a 12 year old to the Wouter de Vos staduim to go and watch Piet Visagie play for Amazol against Mafikeng in 1973. The whole town was their to see Piet Visagie and his team mates who won the Currie Cup for Griquas in 1970. For the next two weeks that was all that we as kids talked about during rugby practice and during lunch breaks at school mimicing Visagie's passes and kicks.


7:25 AM on June 20, 2011

Rugby's appeal, traditions, intrinsic qualities of contact, movement, fluidity, combat, and direct personal expression, still have the power to create communities filled with interest, passion and desire. If ever the laws of nature were embodied in a game, rugby played well is the illustration. Rugby has played a key part in shaping the type of people New Zealanders are today. Our greatest rugby players have provided our nation with a brilliant reflection of ourselves. Rugby players that represented provinces were standard bearers. This was achieved by an aristocracy of sporting talent that lived, worked, and played amongst us. In small communities, it was rugby that had an extraordinary capacity to focus loyalty and belonging. Today a marketing franchise, or re-branding campaign cannot come close to matching this. It is essential to the future of the game that grassroots rugby in the heartland of NZ should be preserved. New Zealand has always represented a concentrated conveyor belt of natural rugby talent coupled with visionary coaching from unpaid volunteers in rural communities, and school playgrounds.

8:12 AM on June 20, 2011 

Well said, again. In 1920 when tha Afrikaners took power in South Africa they targeted rugby to give the Afrikaners as sense of belonging and pride. It was also the first Springboks touring to the UK in 1900 who united the Afrikaans and English speaking communities after the Anglo boer war. It was rugby that united the rainbow nation (black and white) in 1995 when we won the WC. I know NZ is still lameting food tampering and whatever but I do believe there is some appreciation in NZ of what that won meant for South Africa as a country. Just like the AB needed a series won more than the South Africans in 1956 so SA needed something to pul the nation together in 1995. Rugby is part of the our DNA just like it is here in NZ and you are abolutely right it is essential in both countries that rugby stay healthy at grassroots level. I see to many kids not wanting to play rugby anymore or who start crying when you give them a bit of a fitness work-out at practice or whose parents starts complaining when the coach gets a bit vocal with them. It is not the communities and grastoots rugby who are benefitting from the rugby anymore it is the TV companies and rugby administrators and the top 10% players. The rest of the nation is slowly but surely starting to withdraw from the sport.

8:20 AM on June 20, 2011

The community's sense of belonging has now been subordinated to a consumers need for a performed, choreographed spectacle between advertising breaks. This has fueled the demise of the technical aspects of our game, which have been part of our education system for generations, e.g. scrummaging, rucking and contested lineouts. These have been replaced by the media driven league dogma of keeping the ball alive, and lots of tries to hold the attention of those who don't understand the game while surfing TV channels. Without realising we have sold the rules of the game to people that don't understand or appreciate the game. Kiwis, we have been conned by the Aussie media tycoons and we did not even know it. The australian audience is by an large ignorant about the dark arts of the front row, or getting the ball out of a ruck quickly. Pandering to such an audience has diluted the very essence of rugby we have cherished for generations.. Rugby was always a game of territory, rather than possession, and real rugby people have never had an issue with that. Historically NZ television ratings indicated approval for the games objectives. Our next generation of players will not have been taught how to ruck, or contest lineouts and scrums. By removing these aspects from the game, the mighty All Black juggernaut has been detuned (or derailed) to the level of the cannon fodder nations which the All Blacks used to warm up against before playing the Springboks. Those sneaky Aussies have managed to level the playing field. Nothing used to squeal like a an ocker at the bottom of a ruck, so let's get rid of that painful aspect of the game and keep the ball alive. Are you with me mate? No worries mate. I place the blame with the idiots tinkering with the rules. Graham Mourie and Rod MacQueen!!!!

6:11 AM on June 22, 2011

AB 1996 you say: "Without realising we have sold the rules of the game to people that don't understand or appreciate the game. Kiwis, we have been conned by the Aussie media tycoons and we did not even know it. The australian audience is by an large ignorant about the dark arts of the front row, or getting the ball out of a ruck quickly. Pandering to such an audience has diluted the very essence of rugby we have cherished for generations." I tend to agree with you on that one. Interesting though listening to Robbie Deans tonight on Deaker. Dean reckons the game had progressed since 2007 because of the new interpretations of the breakdown. He probably has to because it suite the Aussies who never had a scrum and whose line-out is in serious trouble due to injury to some of their senior locks.

7:02 AM on June 22, 2011

We are on the same page ideologically. Dean's comments highlight the damage the "keep it alive" dogma has done to rugby. Well after all, he was a back! There would be no problems at the breakdown if they allowed rucking, the ball would magically come back to the team going forward. Maybe you should have a section to put these issues to the real rugby people, the soul of rugby is in danger. Rugby is in a crisis.

7:13 AM on July 5, 2011

Totaly agree with you All Blacks, when you say that rugby is in crisis... The spirit of the game has received serious hits in the last 15 years. We have seen it in France with the arrival of the professionalisation... Gameplans in europe have become more and more "uniformised" to not say stereotyped... no more french flair, no more welsh red waves, no more entertaining rugy but a boring one ... They prefer to win 3-0 than loosing 32-24... and they don't try to win it that way. they changed the rules so many times and deciders have't been able to stop this fact. referees have even more an impact on the scores... too much referees decides, applying strictly the rules, instead of the spirit of the rules !

7:45 AM on July 5, 2011

Bienvenue Jean-Pierre. Rugby has nearly forgotten Pierre de Coubertin and his corinthian ideals that have bound rugby people together. I see two issues; 1. The rules and objectives have been change without consultation with purists 2. The alienation of the local communities that have identified themselves with the game. These issues need to be raised before the soul of the game is lost forever.

Andrew

6:15 PM on July 27, 2011 by [email protected]

Great blog. Really like the analysis. Keep up the good work. For the 1st tri-nations test 2011 against the Wallabies, can you please explain why the "lazy runner" Aussie is not blown for being off-sides. The Springbok player passes the ball back, and he is there to catch it?

10:38 PM on July 27, 2011

I think it's got to do with the fact that he didn't purposly interfere with play and that he was actually moving away from play (his back sort of turned to the play trying to get onside). The rule state: A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three things: * Interferes with play or, * Moves forward, towards the ball or * Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4). Another rules states: A player who remains in an offside position is loitering. A loiterer who prevents the opposing team from playing the ball as they wish is taking part in the game, and is penalised. The referee makes sure that the loiterer does not benefit from being put onside by the opposing team's action. He was sort of loitering and did eventually interfere with play but not on intention. I am with you though and would like to see the referee stop play when something like that happen and give the ball to the attacking team. A sort of 'short-arm' penalty namely they are not allowed to kick for goal but get possession back.

8:11 PM on July 30, 2011

I was speaking to van der Merwe after yesterday's AB v Boks game. He said the problem is that the Boks have all become too soft in the gym, and what they really need is hard work on the farm to make them strong again. I suspect the frontline players are on a farm in SA working the land in preparation for the world cup.

7:56 AM on August 3, 2011

1. Jason Leonard (for being so good for so long) 2. Sean Fitzpatrick (for being so good for so long) 3. Patricio Noriega (for making the english scrum look weak) 4. Martin Johnson (for being so good for so long) 5. Victor Matfield (for being cruel to the opposition) 6. Ruben Kruger (for not taking a backward step) 7. Michael Jones (for being there) 8. Buck Shelford (the only undefeated All Black captain) 9. Joost v d Westhuizen (for being better than all he met) 10. Jonny Wilkenson (a national hero in NZ) Hugo Porta not offered? 11. Jonah Lomu (to frighten the opposition) 12. Philippe Sela (the best) 13. Brian O'Driscoll (a good bloke) 14. Bryan Habana (a problem for the team he faces) 15. Serge Blanco (for knocking OZ out of 87 cup) No australian included in this team because none were good enough

8:00 AM on August 25, 2011

http://mediastore.auckland.ac.nz/library/public/2011/Winter-2011-08-23-L6-ChrisLaidlaw.mp3.low.preview A very thought provoking view of rugby's future, and traditions. Comments and discussion invited?????

5:19 PM on August 25, 2011 

Nice clip. Just by coincidence I am busy with an article on the topic. Will post it once I'm done. Laidlaws primary theme that financial provit is the main driver now and the game is losing it's soul. He covers quite a spectrum of topics spanning from sevens to rugby in different countries to women's rugby. His views on the potential consequences of political inpatience and/or turmoil in South Africa are interesting but probably a little dramatized for effect. In the end worldwide financial instability/turmoil is probably going to work out more positively than negatively on the political developments in South Africa. With financial instability the Afrikaner would become more influencial rather than excluded in the political environment in SA.

5:27 PM on August 25, 2011 

My team would be: 15 Blanco (for being so elusive) 14 Kirwan (for scoring one of the best tries I've ever seen) 13 Bunce (for his deceptive footwork) 12 Horan (for his ability to step it up and read the game) 11 Campese (for his unpredictableness) 10 Carter (for being Dan Carter) 9 Joost (for his ability to score impossible tries and his defensive around the fringes and outwide) 8 Zinzan (for his ability to show up and keep movement alive) 7 McCaw (for being the best cheat in the game) 6 Ruben Kruger (for not taking one step backwards) 5 Matfield (for simply being the best ever) 4 Martin Johnston (for the Mana that surrounds him) 3 Richard Loe (for being one of the best NZ have produced) 2 Fitzpatrick (for his ability to milk penalties and taking whatever he dishout back with a smile) 1 Os du Randt (for his scrummaging, defense and being the heart of the SA scrum in two successive WC wins).

5:32 PM on August 25, 2011

Posted my picks. The ones I've submitted at the newspaper are slightly different though mostly because the newspapwer is Northern Hemsiphere and that I believe would influence who they select. So in order to stay in the run to win the tickets I've made picks based on what I think they'll choose. My picks her on the site is what I really think. [/Martin]

5:48 AM on August 26, 2011

I too have been writing an article about these issues. It is still work in progress, but I will share it with you as source material for your piece if that would be useful to you? Congrats to the Springboks for last week's win in PE. I can't wait to see the full team in NZ.

16:07 PM on August 27, 2011

Very informative on world rugby.

7:03 AM on September 5, 2011 

Check out this posting that I've done on my blog: http://blogs.sport24.co.za/McLook/cross-roads-for-nz-rugby I refer to some of the Chris Laidlaw issues. Once you've completed your article I'll post on my blog if you wish. It will attract more attention there.

5:40 AM on September 7, 2011

The rebel rugby tour: Boots and all Members of the 1986 Cavaliers tour talkabout why they were so determined to go to South Africa, the off-field lessons they learned and why they have no regrets. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10750033

8:23 AM on October 12, 2011

My South African ?friends and enemies?, as a New Zealander I can say the Boks were robbed in the RWC quarter final last Sunday, without being accused of being a bad loser. Yes, the referee was bad and wrong. Springbok and All Black rugby is in serious crisis, regardless of who wins the World Cup, and I blame Australia. Australia does not have a player base or a domestic competition, and rugby as we know it is not taught in many schools in Australia. Australia needs Super Rugby and the Trinations/ Four Nations more than SA and NZ., without it they have no competition or club, provincial structures to build from. By selling the All Blacks and the Boks to SANZAR we have undermined our own domestic rugby infrastructure to get broadcasting fees from an Australian Company, News Corporation. Meaningless Trinations fixtures do not capture the imagination of real rugby people in NZ or SA, they just generate TV rating for an australian broadcasting company. These people care not about our game. What will sell to the Aussie public- dictates how the game is developed and approached in Australia. Since the professional era the ?keep the ball alive? heresy has been inflicted union rugby worldwide but especially in the Southern hemisphere. The problem with that is that the Southern hemisphere seems to dictate rule adjustments in world rugby and that S15 are all about money and pleasing spectators. Spectacular back line movement and a fast pace game has become the norm and none are more critical about the South African style of 10-man rugby than the Aussies. Rugby is being turned at an increasing rate into a league hybrid which is all about flashy fancy pants razzle and dazzle with orgasmic style yelling by television commentators whose main job and objective is to make it sound and look more spectacular than it really is. Rugby as one of our national institutions has changed dramatically, and is now in grave danger of becoming just a business, driven purely by the financial returns to shareholders in those company's which have purchased broadcasting rights. Unfortunately rugby supporters do not seem to be looking at the deeper underlying causes of what is wrong with Springbok and All Black rugby. If we think carefully, it actually stems from what has gone wrong with our domestic rugby. These media driven influences are controlled, and motivated without any regard for the cultural structure that has facilitated the nurturing of great talent in such a small corner of the world. If the game is not nourished at the grassroots level, the game will crumble, and inevitably undermine the chances of the All Blacks or Springboks winning future world cups. We should blame ourselves for letting the situation get so bad. The average Aussie is of the opinion that Australia can only be successful in rugby if they play a style very similar to League namely a fast tempo game in which the ball flash from hand to hand in spectacular movements. I suggest that is why rucking, contested lineouts, rolling mauls, have been eliminated. (Rod MacQueen for Oz coach is on the IRB rules committee). Australians have never been good at the nitty gritty side of rugby, so they removed it from the game. This is a crime. Now we in NZ have to have pay TV, or we are reduced to watching highlights on australian PrimeTV almost a day after the game. Something is very wrong if the people with a stake in a New Zealand provincial teams need to pay australians to edit the highlights they get to watch a day after the event. Australia is the only country that benefits from the Trinations tournament. I say withdraw the All Blacks, withdraw the Boks and leave them to rot, they are destroying the game we learned to play. Stuff the money, we need to play hard ball. Aus needs us a lot more than we need them. Imagine a test series Boks v ABs, provincial games mid afternoons, who cares if australia does not want to watch?

4:38 AM on April 18, 2012

Im interested in trying to find video of the Boks vs France from 71. Anyone have any ideas ?

Russell Andrews

6:22 PM on May 4, 2012 by [email protected]

I was busy searching for info on a Proteas rugby player, John Stubbs, when I came across your collection. I am seriously looking for video and photo material of games in which John Stubss and Attie Lategan played. If you can recommend where I can search, please let me know. Thank you.

6:58 PM on May 4, 2012 

There is a write up match report and pictures of Proteas v All Blacks in 1976 published in the 1976 Edition of the the DB Rugby Annual edited by Bob Howitt, published by Moa. John Stubss and Attie Lategan both played in that fixture. Good luck finding a copy.

4:09 PM on May 5, 2012 

I would think the best place to find video material would be the SABC (don't know what it's called to today) but the TV broadcasting corporation. Maybe contact Boots and All and see if they can provide you with a contact name of someone working with archive material in that corporation. If you do find a contact I would be please if you flick it in my direction as well. Only reason why I haven't tried something similar is because I am living in NZ.

Aidan Taylor

9:43 AM on May 10, 2012 by [email protected]

Hi, I am doing an MA essay about the position of the SARB within the IRB during the Apartheid era. South Africa was barred from other sports but rugby only took action towards the end. I was interested in why? Old boy network? The rugby family (not a big one at that) not disregarding one of its own? Keeping the SARB within rugby and not encouraging a professional game? Thoughts would be good, especially from a South African perspective.

4:02 AM on May 12, 2012 

Aidan, A very good question, I will attempt to answer you from a New Zealand perspective. South Africa or the Springboks were the the bench mark of rugby, and the the world champions if they beat the All Blacks, which they usually did. Every elite sportsman wants to be the best and to beat the best. From that point of view every rugby player on the planet want to beat the Boks. This was a huge bargaining chip in the rugby world, especially in New Zealand who needed to be world champions. To New Zealanders Rugby World Cups were more or less irrelevant without the Boks, and a series win in SA was the real prize or symbol or world rugby supremacy. We all thought that the Springboks were paid to play and the result of genetic modification and selective breeding. Otherwise, how could such big guys run so fast with such ball skills. We believed these boys were super human. At the time our prevailing belief was that if South Africa and Craven were to be banned or ostracized, then the retaliation from the SARB would be to take the game professional, and thus would destroy everything that rugby, and Corinthian amateurism stood for. This was unthinkable, especially in the Northern Hemisphere. South Africa had the Ace and the Joker cards to play if the IRB moved to act against apartheid. On top of that, the prevailing sentiment in rugby circles was that the game was more important than, and above politics. The brotherhood of rugby trumped all. Comments invited.

6:49 PM on May 12, 2012 

Lots of aspects to your question so let me begin with the standing of the SARB within IRB. Danie Craven I believe was the trump card in that regard as he had a unique standing as did Springbok rugby. Craven was able through his contacts (old boy network if you which) to pull off tours in the mid-seventies that would otherwise not have happened. He also had a powerful ally in Louis Luyt (a South African self-made millionaire) in the mid-eighties which certainly left the impression worldwide that money was not a problem. It was that money connection that made the 1986 Cavaliers tour possible In terms of Springbok rugby South Africa was the first Southern hemisphere team to accomplished a grand slam beating the four home nations on an End of Year tour in 1912, 1931, 1951 and 1960. By 1956 South Africa had never lost a test series which is the reason why that particular series against New Zealand was so intense. New Zealand also had unfinished business with the Springboks in the sense that they were unable to win a series in South Africa. The Springboks was furthermore the only team in the world that had a better win/loose record against the All Blacks. It was these two factors that brought them to SA in 1976 and in 1986 (the Cavaliers). None of the home nations have won a series in South Africa and neither did the British and Irish Lions by the time the Sports banned was implemented. Willie John McBride the Captain of the 1974 British Lions state that the sheer challenge the Springboks posed as the major reason why he as a player never had any doubts about touring to South Africa in 1974. So I don?t think it was a matter of the rugby community not wanting to disregard one of its own it was the reputation an status of Springbok rugby that made them a team that every player and nation wanted to play.

6:52 PM on May 12, 2012 

Part two of my answer: Rugby in South Africa is even more popular than here in New Zealand; just look at attendance of Super 15 rugby matches (number of people in the stands) in New Zealand and in South Africa. There was public demand in South Africa for international rugby. South African players also craved for it and they had no other way (as opposed to today) to get international exposure by playing club rugby for instance in Europe. That culminated into a situation that neither public nor players had any problems with the SARB paying players from other countries as an incentive to tour to South Africa. Having said all that I don?t agree with your assessment that ?action was only taken towards the end?. All End of Year tours to the United Kingdom stopped after the disastrous 69/70 tour. There were no tours to the New Zealand between 1965 and 1981 and the last tour to Australia was in 1971. The SARB, Craven and Luyt could only really manage a trickle of international sides to South Africa. The Lions of 1974 was heavily criticized in the UK media for touring to SA as was the 1980 British Lions. Some players even decided to return home halfway through the tour due to death threats targeting family members back home. The 1970 and 1976 All Black tours were heavily condemned and went through some court action. South Africa toured as a team only once namely to France in 1974/75 between the years 1971 and 1994. Apart from that Craven and SARB could only establish one tour namely 1981 to New Zealand. At home we played the B&I Lions in 1980 and French side in one test match. We also played the French in a two test series in 1975, the All Blacks in 1976, England (in 1 test) in 1972 and a much depleted English side in 1984. Other than that we had some ?test matches? against Argentina and World VX invitation sides which can hardly be called international rugby. We felt cut-off and it was only the passion for the game, the strong economy (the Rand was stronger than the American dollar in the seventies and eighties) and the personality of Danie Craven that allowed us to secure the odd international match/tour after 1970.

6:54 PM on May 12, 2012 

Part three of my answer: The 1981 tour to New Zealand was an exception and only made possible due to the intense Springbok/All Black rivalry. The New Zealand rugby fraternity and politicians also underestimated the impact the tour would occasion in New Zealand. They underestimated in particular how well organised the protest movement had become and this in particular was one the reason why all tours ceased after 1981. The protest movement was run by the same people since 1969 and they were brought over from the UK to Australia in 1971 and to New Zealand in 1981. These people became increasingly better at what they were doing having learned from the 1969/70 and the 1971 experiences in the UK and Australia respectively. In 1969 and 1971 the police in the UK and Australia handled them with relative ease but the 1981 group was well organised and the New Zealand police was not totally ready for the onslaught. So in essence the protest movements was not taken really serious by governments up to 1981 but that tour changed perspectives and brought realisation that this is actually really serious and not just a bunch of tree huggers screaming over megaphones. So in summary, I believe action was almost immediate in the UK and Australia and it was only due to the status of Springbok rugby and personality of Danie Craven that B&I Lions (1974 and 1980) tours and the 1976 All Black tours materialised. The Apartheid government in SA also had a strong hold with its very effective and large military and police forces which made it relatively safe for players touring to South Africa. The slogan of the time was ?this is rugby and not politics?. There was a na�ve believe among the rugby public and players that you could separate Sport and politics. That believe changed in 1981.

9:36 PM on May 12, 2012 

It is debatable if there ever was a sporting ban against South Africa. If you are referring to the Glen Eagles agreement, the word ?Ban? is not mentioned. The wording employed phases like ?governments will discourage?. This was one of the days when good King Robert Muldoon was at his best. He reworded the agreement from ban to discourage as a compromised to get more signatories to the agreement from the Commonwealth. In effect this enabled him to the NZ electorate with a policy of no government interference in sport, while at the same time discouraging, but not banning. In reality his government were happy to grant entry visas to the 1981 Springboks. In New Zealand the majority believed such matters were for the individual to decide who they chose to play sport with, and the government had no role to play in matters of individual conscience. Many rugby supporters were opposed to apartheid, but did not agree that rugby was a suitable mechanism to contest the internal political machinations of another country. The 1981 Springbok Tour was a victory for democracy in New Zealand, and the freedom of the individual to govern his or her own conscience. The opportunity to get all the pinkos, and socialists on to the street to face a baton charge from the Red Squad was long overdue in NZ, and welcomed in many quarters. Sure there was blood on the ground, but our freedom to choose was being attacked from within. Many people thought after such upheaval the Boks should come back every year. I thoroughly enjoyed 1981. That was the last time the lefties got a kicking in this land, it has been down hill ever since!

6:22 AM on May 13, 2012 

You wrote: "In New Zealand the majority believed such matters were for the Many rugby supporters were opposed to apartheid, but did not agree that rugby was a suitable mechanism to contest the internal political machinations of another country. The 1981 Springbok Tour was a victory for democracy in New Zealand, and the freedom of the individual to govern his or her own conscience." I am trying to stay PC but to be honest most SA rugby fans felt exactly the same with regard to the freedom of the individual to govern his own conscience.

Aidan Taylor

6:33 AM on May 14, 2012 by [email protected]

Thanks for all the views, they will be useful. I agree though about the IRBs sanctions; though not official it was not ethical to tour SA and I believe only two of the home unions did - Ireland (81) and England (72&84). The Lions did see the light eventually although the 79 SA Ba-Ba's tour blinded the IBs eyes to the situation (not that the IB needed any encouragement to carry on regardless). I do think the Lions were wrong to go in 1980 though - the riots of 76 should have stopped all that. I found a great book by Malcom Templeton about NZ/SA relationships between 1921-1994 which I used for an essay I did recently about sport and politics not being mixed. I did a lot of extra research for this and was quite happy with it although I have yet to see the opinions of my tutor.

6:33 AM on May 19, 2012 

Matters of ethics are not determined by consensus or the majority, but are determined by the values base of the individual. Governments do not have the right to impose values and ethics on citizens. The rights of the individual to choose a values system is part of a free and open society. The irony of this issue is that many people were campaigning and demonstrating to improve the rights of people in a far away land, by suggesting we remove our own citizens right to choose who they play sport with. Your conclusion assumes that playing rugby with the Springboks condoned apartheid. However that was the view of the anti tour movement which was a minority trying to remove other peoples right to choose their own values system. When the Lions toured SA, all four home unions toured. France also chose to go and play. Argentina were happy to go, as was New Zealand who also enjoyed hosting the Boks at the height of the isolation. From that point of view it looks like Australia were the only country that did not have the backbone to take on the might of Springbok rugby and not bow under to the will of Comrade Bob Mugabe and Company. McLook, you do not need to be political correct, this is your site, cut loose man. The anti tour movement were mostly socialist subversives that were intent on imposing their new age values on the rugby world. Muldoon knew they would not vote for him anyway, so why not have a Springbok Tour and get the Red Squad to beat them up with long batons. The 1981 Springbok Tour was not a mistake, it was a triumph for the rights of the individual to choose despite opposing views trying to remove that right. Those were the good old days, when men were rugby players, and protesters were nancy boys, and hippies.

Aidan Taylor

5:20 AM on May 22, 2012 by [email protected]

Re whether the 81 Boks tour of NZ was a mistake - I would argue with this. NZ may not have been on the brink of a civil war but it did divide it in a way nothing before or since has. Many feel it didn't really recover till the 87 RWC - the 86 Cavaliers didn't help. Why the reference to Mugabe? Yes he's an evil tyrant and should be hung but I am not aware of his influence in SA rugby circles. The 81 tour was a battle between personal freedom to choose and playing with apartheid rugby and by 81 protestors had moved on from the 69 hippies. They were better organised, hence the cancelling of the 73 tour. Over a decade of anti-Vietnam protests etc had hardened such people and they learned from previous protestors - see Australia 71.

6:30 AM on May 22, 2012 

Back in the 1980s Mugabe was seen as good bloke in the Commonwealth, and the sort of person we should try to appease. The protesters were very well organised, but the police were too soft with them. A few live rounds on the first day would have sent them running for cover quickly enough. The 1973 Tour was cancelled by a socialist government that were in cahoots with the anti tour pinkos. The next election they were booted hard in a landslide. Good King Muldoon campaigned on this issue, and had a strong mandate. By 1981 NZ needed a bit of division to flush out the lefties. Muldoon was the last politician that was prepared to give them a blood nose. Rugby recovered fast enough, and those liberal sorts were never involved to begin with. The protest movement were looking for a cause after Vietnam. The protesters got off lightly. We should have used the army and tanks to clear them. These days the same people are all anti Israeli and pro Palestinian and make a noise at tennis games. The 1986 Cavaliers was another wonderful rugby event, that provided the perfect foundation to win the 1987 World Cup. Most australians would not know where South Africa is, and probably could not find Africa of NZ on an unlabeled map of the world. The long baton charge was a great spectacle in itself. If only the had bayonets. A bit of cold steel would have fixed them. 1981 was a good year.

Eugene Beil

4:30 PM on June 5, 2012 by [email protected]

Interesting article on the 1970 tour. As a cousin of Ken Gray, I would dispute your allegation that NZ fielded its best team on the tour. But admittedly, I have a bias.

Nico van der Merwe

8:53 AM on July 13, 2012 by [email protected]

Good day I really hope you can help me. I saw this page http://springbokrugby.webs.com/wpcurriecupstory.htm This was a 1979 article in the Huisgenoot featuring the WP and The N tvl side playing in the Currie Cup final with each players face and profile of both sides. I was hoping that I can get a colour copy of the front page of that specific Huisgenoot please. It is the one with Naas Botha and Robbie Blair on the front page as well as a copy of the article featured on your website as well. Please let me know. Thank you

3:58 AM on July 15, 2012 

Hi Nico. I unfortunately don't have the article which was on page 104 of that edition of the Huisgenoot. I have a thumb nail size black and white picture of the front page and the colour picture of Robbie Blair that featured on that front page. I'll put the article on my webpage in a adobe format (including the Robbie Blair picture as well as some other ones of Blair and Naas Botha and e-mail it to you.

Ryan Spencer

4:52 PM on July 17, 2012 by [email protected]

McLook - I have some DVDs that might interest you. Full games: 1984 2nd test SA vs England and 1985 Currie Cup final: WP vs NTvl. Email me and I'll arrange to get copies to you. Regards Ryan

John

9:19 AM on September 16, 2012 by [email protected]

Hi, I came across your site while searching for video from the 1976 AB tour. You have provided a great source of information thanks. Just wondering if you know where I could get dvds or downloads of the full test matches from that tour, it's fascinating to look back on. Cheers John

3 colours

12:59 PM on October 20, 2012 by [email protected]

Hi John! I looked forward to following the tour of 56 and your point of view on Kevin Skinner. No problem, I hope?

GavinSolomon

10:16 AM on January 18, 2013 by [email protected]

Thank you for a great job.

Garath

11:26 AM on April 4, 2013 by [email protected]

I was a member of the 1970 South Western Districts team that played against the All Blacks in George, South Africa. That was the come back match of Colin Meads playing with a cast on his arm. Also the match where I landed in hospital with a broken nose. Great website. Congratulations. Garath de Kock

4:35 AM on April 7, 2013 

Hi Garath Welcome to my website. Ex-players are excellent sources of information so maybe you can help me with some questions and player identification:). Do you know what happened to Andre Walters who played centre for WP and the Gazelle team in 1970? Some of the articles/books on that tour give him quite a write-up as future Springbok but he dissapeared from the scene. Also what do you know about the van Blommenstein who played flyhalf for Northern Transvaal and the Gazelle team in 1970? Lastly I've added some additional info to the posting about the SWD match against the All Blacks. One is an article written by Alex Veysey in which he had some positive things to say about your perfromance in that game. He also mention the fact that you got injured and had to leave the field. Can you tell me a little about the SWD team of 1970. Where did the majority of the players came from? Who moved on and played rugby at some of the prime provinces? What was the coaching of the SWD team like for instance how frequently did the team train; what was the nature of the training sessions and what was the main game plan against the All Blacks? Also what did you think of the 1970 All Blacks?Hi Nico. I unfortunately don't have the article which was on page 104 of that edition of the Huisgenoot. I have a thumb nail size black and white apicture of the front page and the colour picture of Robbie Blair that featured on that front page. I'll put the article on my webpage in a adobe format (including the Robbie Blair picture as well as some other ones of Blair and Naas Botha and e-mail it to you.

Dave Kennealy

11:09 AM on April 15, 2013 by [email protected]

I am President of South African Barbarians. I found your wonderful article on the Quagga Barbarians v All Blacks game in 1976 when I was doing some research for our upcoming game against Saracens in London. There does not seem to be any other info on this famous match and I hope you will have no objection to me using some of your history at an after match function in London on May 16th. Your "recollection" is a valuble piece of South African Barbarians history and I am delighted to have stumbled upon it! Best wishes, Dave

Robert Barrie

4:02 AM on May 3, 2013 by [email protected]

Excellent

11:01 AM on May 28, 2013 

Hello fellow members. As a New Zealander now living and working in Western Australia,i came across this site accidentally but was so happy that I had, and have scrolled through the various pages of SPRINGBOK RUGBY HISTORY like a child in a candy store with a hundred dollars to spend. As an eight year old boy I can clearly remember watching on NZ TV the 76 ALL BLACKS, playing in the republic trying to win the series on South African soil. As I grew older I managed to read my fathers collection of :MEN IN BLACK: a definitive collection of every test and tour match the all blacks have played in there entire playing history. Having read these books the series that always caught my attention were the series played home and away against the mighty SPRINGBOKS. On top of these books,biographies written about the careers of SYDNEY GOING, GRANT BATTY, IAN KIRKPATRICK, COLIN MEADS, and BRIAN WILLIAMS help capture my growing interest in the PHENOMENON which was and still is SPRINGBOK RUGBY. Which brings me to enquire to all members, about a specific time period in SPRINGBOK RUGBY HISTORY. The isolation years between 1970-1991. Does anyone know where I may be able to purchase DVD or video footage or books regarding the tours that took place during this time period. In particular the French tours to the republic in the 1970's, the 1974 and1980 British and Irish lions series, the 1970 and 1976 All Black tours to the republic,the 1977 & 1989 World XV games against the Springboks (really keen to see these games) all test matches played against the South AmericanJaguars (home and away,super keen to see these as well) Ireland 1981and the England tour to South Africa in 1984. These are such hard tours/games to come by on DVD, video,or hardback,but someone somewhere in the republic (south african rugby union-south african broadcasting) or elsewhere in the world I'm sure could help me to fill this void which, for me is like being that boy in that candy store with money to spend,but my favourite chocolate ain't available to purchase. If anyone can help please reply to this comment. Thank you. MIKE DALY. In case you are wondering I have already purchased a DVD copy from England of the 1986 Sringbok vs Cavaliers, tour to the republic. Bloody awesome viewing. MD.

11:13 AM on May 28, 2013 

Hi Dave , if you check out the MEN IN BLACK SERIES OF BOOKS you may find information about the 76 game against the All Blacks. If you also reference the biographies of Sydney Going, Grant Batty,Brian Williams ,and Ian Kirkpatrick they may also mention that particular game. Have any New Zealanders played for the SA BABAS? And what is the criteria for selection to play for this great team.? Invitation only? Have there been any books written about the SA BARBARIANS? If so how can I get a hold of one?

3:59 PM on May 30, 2013 

[Mike daly] As an eight year old boy I can clearly remember watching on NZ TV the 76 ALL BLACKS, playing in the republic trying to win the series on South African soil. Which brings me to enquire to all members, about a specific time period in SPRINGBOK RUGBY HISTORY. The isolation years between 1970-1991. Does anyone know where I may be able to purchase DVD or video footage or books regarding the tours that took place during this time period. Mike, I can identify with all your recollections of 1976. I was eleven at the time, and my circle was totally consumed with the idea of beating the Springboks in their Afrikaaner homeland. The excitement before the All Blacks left was intense. We all had caricature stickers of our favourite All Blacks on our school bags and books. The news that Grant Batty was hurt pre season was worrying, but we all hoped he would bounce back. Going, Batty Kirkpatrick, Robertson, Pole Whiting and Bee Gee Williams all carried the collective hopes and aspirations of our nation into battle. The disappointment was huge, and only served to polarise our obsession with beating the uncompromising Boks, regardless of world opinion. The importance of beating the South Africans trumped the Glen Eagles agreement, the Montreal Olympics, political condemnation, and apeasing the sensitivities of liberal do gooders. After this national disaster I started to study the Boks as well. Where did they find kicking machines like Gerald Bosch, and jersey pullers like Morn� du Plessis? Just when I thought Bosch had gone away, they put Naas Botha on the team sheet. The 1977 World XV match was shown on NZ Television the next day. The games against the South American Jaguars in 1980 and 1982 were also covered on TVNZ Sport on One as highlights the following week. The 1980 Lions series was televised live in NZ also by TV1. This means all this footage should survive somewhere in the TVNZ archive. It maybe hard to unearth these days now the sickly white liberal do gooders have infected TVNZ with the virus of political correctness. I would love to see them all again as well. HMV London, Virgin Mega Store and Tower Records at Piccadilly Circus all have DVDs of the 1974 Lions tour, which are readily available in the build up to Lions tours. I have never been able to buy any footage of the 1980 Lions. Good Luck.

Wouter

12:45 PM on June 19, 2013 by [email protected]

Hi McLook, thank you very much for this very interesting website. I am a new member on your website and my passion is rugby, rugby in general, but especially Springbok and South African rugby history. I found your chapter on Junior Springbok rugby very interesting and can add the following: As far as the Junior Springboks and Gazelles are concerned, there is actually a difference. The Junior Springbok team normally consisted of players of any age who have not yet played for the Springboks, whilst the Gazelles was a South African under 24 side, also consisting of non-capped players. There were, however, exceptions to the rule. In 1977 Gerald Bosch for example was selected to play for the Junior Boks in a curtain raiser on the day the Springboks played against a World XV with the opening of the new Loftus Versfeld in Pretoria, although he was already a Springbok. Dawie de Villiers in 1966 also captained the first Gazelles team, although he was already the Springbok captain at that stage. The two teams also had different jerseys, the Junior Bok team played in dark blue jerseys and shorts, whilst the Gazelles played in a green jersey with red collar and white shorts. In the first Junior Bok touring side in 1932 there were, as stated by you, 5 future Boks in the team, but they were Jack Gage, John Apsey, George D?Alton, Lappies Hattingh and Joe Nykamp (C). Vlok and Seymour never played for the Springboks. Gage also played for Ireland in his day. None of the five went on the 1937 tour. As far as the 1950 Juior Bok team is concerned, you are not sure who W Koch is. It is Willem Koch, who was a brother of the famous Chris, both of them played for Moorreesburg and Boland. The J Wessels in the first team of 1955 was John Wessels, who was also a Springbok and toured with the 1951/52 team to the British Isles and France. His brother Piet toured with the Springboks in 1965 to Ireland and Scotland. F Roux in the 155 teams was Francois Roux and not Mannetjies Roux. Mannetjies was only about 16 years old then and only played for the Junior Boks in 1959. In the 1959 team O (Ormond) Taylor, G (Giepie) Wentzel and CM (Nelie) Smith also went on to become Springboks like Engelbrecht, Twigge and the others. I have more information on the Gazelles and Junior Springboks should you want more info. I don?t think I have all the team lists, but I do have some, especially those what played in South Africa against touring sides, etc. I also have a lot of photos from players from yesteryear, should you require any.

4:59 PM on June 19, 2013 

Thanks for the info Wouter. I'll make some adjustments to the text. I've send you an email regarding the offer for additional information/pictures.

Rhodri Davies

6:20 AM on July 22, 2013 by [email protected]

Hi, I am fascinated by your site, it's obviously a labour of love and is a great introduction to South African rugby. I am a UK based broadcaster/journalist currently working on a project about the British and Irish Lions. I would very much like to talk to you either via e-mail or telephone in regard to a few things. Best wishes.

3:27 AM on August 22, 2013 

Things are not good for Joost van der Westhuizen; http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23699697 He is in our thoughts.

Jeremy Lucas

9:12 PM on December 2, 2013 by [email protected]

You have put together a fascinating collection of material, and very well done on putting the viewpoints of both SA and NZ where you can. That said your sympathies seem to lie more with SA; is that a correct reading? Also, you don't have a section on the NZ tour to SA of 1960. Is that a tour you just couldn't find much about?

8:23 PM on December 4, 2013 

Yip my sympathies lie more with the Springboks being a South African by birth and having lived in SA for 38 years. This website is a work in progress. At the moment it's probaly only 40% of my collection. I have heaps of stuff on the 1960 tour and my plan is to write about that tour next. However, if you have stuff about the 1960 tour (or any other material regarding springbok rugby) that you are prepared to part with let me know and I'll be keen to purchase it. This is ultimately just a hobby and my prgress is currently slower than I would like it to be due to my job responsiblities.

Jeremy Lucas

6:04 PM on December 23, 2013 by [email protected]

In answer to your query Sorry, No I don't have material on the 1960 series, but will be interested to see what you put together. I do know that it was a close series. Also for what it is worth, Colin Meads is meant to have said that one of the most enthralling aspects of it were the lineout contests between Neven McEwan and Johan Claassen.

Kalle

10:42 AM on February 2, 2014 by [email protected]

Please forward your postal address. We are moving and I was clearing out stuff and came across an old 1971 ticket stub from way back when. Not mine but when I found it I had thoughts that I could sell it on eBay for millions. It looks like you could gain something from it perhaps or know of a good home so I will look no further. You can compensate or pay forward as you wish when you receive it. Kalle -- www.dogtags.co.za

Gav Melville

5:19 PM on March 18, 2014 by [email protected]

Nice reflections, sir. A fine read through those isolation years of the sixties and seventies. I tske it for granted that I could get 1000 opinions on recent games on the net. It's good to get some personal perspectives on the days of yore. Keep writing.

wayne

3:34 AM on May 4, 2014 by [email protected]

hi does any1 have any programs or photos which show the numbers the allblacks wore on the 49 tour.each player was allocated 1 jersey and number for the tour.some programs havd their tour number beside their name.thanks for your help wayne ([email protected]

4:49 AM on May 4, 2014 

Hi Wayne The '49 tour is the hardest tour to find info on. I've got one book by Winston McCarthy (All Blacks on trek again). A quick browse show no info on player numbers. If you do find any information please let me know. Kind regards

Mitch Millar

6:13 AM on June 11, 2014 by [email protected]

Thanks for this informative collection of Springbok Rugby History. I'm a huge fan, especially of statistics. I'm hoping to find stats on the midweek tour games played by the Boks - i.e. Opponent, Place, Team, Scorers, Score, etc. Many thanks. Am signing up as well.

Adam Hathaway

11:24 AM on July 22, 2014 by [email protected]

I am trying to find out the whereabouts/jobs of some of the SA players from 1976. Anyone know what Peter Whipp, Paul Bayvel, Moaner van Heerden and Kol Oosthuizen did or are doing?

4:52 PM on July 22, 2014 

Moaner van Heerden work in the police force in Pretoria. I've got a cousin who is a colleqeue of Moaner and who knows him well. Paul Bayvel is a mine salesman (type of sales middle man) in the Vereeniging/Vanderbijlpark area. He sells water pipes and accesories to manufacturing plants and mines. Peter Whipp is I think (not sure about this but saw something one of the video clips on the 1974 series -available on this site) a chiropractitioner.

5:41 PM on December 18, 2014 

Hello, I would be very interested in anything pertaining the rugby history of South West Africa/Namibia (the stadium they use to play, jersey colours, badge/symbol, players, Currie Cup history - especially their 1988 season, the 1991 Irish tour): newspaper clippings, old pictures, rare video footage, and - most importantly - the author's personal recollection of matches (as I've read he is a SWA/Namibia native :), Thank you! - a fan from Romania.

5:52 PM on December 22, 2014 

Hi Fastardul Apologies ofr the delayed response. There is problem with my interet service provider. I can't get onto the website. Webs.com are busy trying to sort this as apparently I am not the only one with the problem. I am responding from work. I actually don't have lots on Namibia rugby. I'll try and post what I have ver the nxt couple of weeks that is if the proble with the service prvider can be sorted.

Louis Botha

5:49 PM on April 12, 2015 by [email protected]

Awsome site. Nice link you can add - http://www.genslin.us/bokke/sarugby.html

4:40 AM on May 12, 2015 

Hallo, where can I buy an original Maori rugby jersey? Please call me on (0027) (0) 72 4012880. Rugby wishes. Pierre

6:12 AM on May 12, 2015 

Dear Dave, delighted to hear about you. I was the TV journalist who interviewed Chick Henderson at Jan Smuts before they left for the UK in 1979. I am sure you remember that tour. I collect rugby memorabilia. Is it possible that I may have a Barbarians jersey for my pub? I am also writing a book. I should be happy to oblige with a signed copy. Pierre Massyn, tel 072 401 2880 email [email protected] Rugby wishes.

10:44 AM on May 12, 2015 

Hallo McLook, in you brilliant Jan Ellis collection their is a photo of Dawie Snyman kicking, captioned France 1975. It should actually be Lions, First test, Newlands, 1974. Are you now living in Palmerston North?

3:57 AM on May 13, 2015 

I also have a feeling that the mentioned picture might have been taken in the 1974 Newlands test (in fact you'll see the photo in the Lions 1974 album as well). However it comes out of a brochure published about the 74/75 end of year tour to France. Snyman, Ellis, Oosthuizen and Morne du Plessis (players in the picture) played in both test in France during that EOYT. One test was played in very wet conditions. So it could have been France. The player in the left hand corner walking back (one can see his legs and part of his chest) does seems to wear a Lions outfit; hard to tell though. Anyway I changed the heading slightly.

3:58 AM on May 13, 2015 

Yes I am living in Palmerston North, New Zealand at the moment.

anonymous

5:10 AM on May 13, 2015 by [email protected]

hi please send me a contact email/number. Would like to add u to our media list. thanks

5:04 PM on May 13, 2015 

Please provide a bit more info. What media list? Understandably I don't want to send my contact info to unknown sources.

7:01 AM on May 21, 2015 

Hi McLook, are you interested in a business venture in NZ? Email me at [email protected]

7:04 AM on May 21, 2015 

MClook, Chris Greyvenstein in Springbok Saga made the same caption mistake about the photo showing Dawie Snyman kicking. I remember the photo was taken during the first test at Newlands 1974.

11:00 AM on May 24, 2015 

Hallo everybody, I am looking for the photo of Danie Craven throwing a dive pass in the 1937 series in NZ. I believe the photo was taken the third test. It shows Craven a metre off the ground withbthe NZ backs rushing up in defense. My email is [email protected]

3:08 AM on May 25, 2015 

Look in the Danie Craven photo gallery on this site. There is two pictures of Craven dive-passing.

3:09 AM on May 25, 2015 

If it's a pyramid system I'm not interested.

Pierre Massyn

9:17 AM on May 30, 2015 by [email protected]

No McLook, it is not a PS. I have just written a book. My email is [email protected]

Pierre Massyn

9:03 AM on June 12, 2015 by [email protected]

Hallo everybody, could someone give me the date of the match when Frik du Preez dropped, placed and scored? I would like to include this in my new book. Thanks. PFM.

rameez

5:54 AM on July 7, 2015 by [email protected]

Hi mclook do you have a mail address where i can contact you ?

Pierre Francois Massyn

5:44 AM on September 17, 2015 by [email protected]

Exciting new rugby book: Springbok Rugby Quiz is the first comprehensive Quiz of its kind ever to be published. Covers the entire span of Springbok history from 1891 up to the 2015 RWC. Visit http://springbokrugbyquiz.co.za. All the facts, the stories, the legends, the great matches. Especially the humour. All the epic battles, the scores, the tries, the players. Test your knowlege. Become part of the brotherhood of rugby. Get it now. It is the ideal Christmans gift.

3:14 AM on September 20, 2015 

Looks like a wonderful book. Can you tell us your list of distributors and retailers in New Zealand so I can order a copy please?

Liebe Reinecke

4:25 AM on December 21, 2015 by [email protected]

Hi McLook, is it possible to use a photograph of Jan Ellis for a tv cooking show in South Africa about the Jan Ellis dessert? Liebe

9:14 PM on January 28, 2016 

Sure. Sorry for the delayed response. Haven't been on the site for awhile due to browser problems.

Smitha61

2:59 AM on June 3, 2016 by [email protected]

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Smithf722

7:41 PM on August 14, 2016 by [email protected]

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Justin Gregory

5:43 PM on August 16, 2016 by [email protected]

Hi there. My name is Justin Gregory and I am a producer at Radio New Zealand in Auckland, New Zealand. I am making a story on Colin Meads and the 1970 game against Eastern Transvaal and have found your collection to be incredibly helpful. I would like to be able to quote and reference information from it in the story and the accompanying web article and I am seeking your permission to do so. Please mail me back at the address above. I look forward to hearing from you. Many thanks. Justin.

Smitha92

6:41 AM on October 3, 2016 by [email protected]

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Allen Muller

8:02 AM on October 11, 2016 by [email protected]

Good day every one i am currently building a photo album of all the capped springboks i am looking for a photo of springbok no 377 Robert George Johns (Bobby) he played in the 17th December 1060 test against Ireland at Lansdowne Road Dublin. Thank you Allen